Saxony 1657 4 thaler Dav-LS396 - Revision history

LatinKing2020: Text replacement - "|1657 thaler, vicariat]]" to "|1657-☘ thaler, vicariat]]"

2026-07-02T16:41:39Z

Text replacement - "|1657 thaler, vicariat]]" to "|1657-☘ thaler, vicariat]]"

LatinKing2020: Text replacement - "|1657 half thaler, vicariat]]" to "|1657-☘ half thaler, vicariat]]"

2026-07-02T16:40:49Z

Text replacement - "|1657 half thaler, vicariat]]" to "|1657-☘ half thaler, vicariat]]"

LatinKing2020: Text replacement - "|1657 ¼ thaler, vicariat]]" to "|1657-☘ quarter thaler, vicariat]]"

2026-07-02T16:39:50Z

Text replacement - "|1657 ¼ thaler, vicariat]]" to "|1657-☘ quarter thaler, vicariat]]"

LatinKing2020: Text replacement - "(Dav-LS397)" to "(Dav-LS397)"

2026-04-29T18:06:46Z

Text replacement - "(Dav-LS397)" to "(Dav-LS397)"

LatinKing2020: Text replacement - "Fr-2719|1657 double ducat" to "Fr-2719|1657-☘ double ducat"

2026-04-29T18:02:45Z

Text replacement - "Fr-2719|1657 double ducat" to "Fr-2719|1657-☘ double ducat"

LatinKing2020: Text replacement - "1657 ducat, vicariat" to "1657-☘ ducat, on the vicariat"

2026-04-29T18:02:07Z

Text replacement - "1657 ducat, vicariat" to "1657-☘ ducat, on the vicariat"

LatinKing2020: added links

2026-04-29T17:58:05Z

added links

LatinKing2020: added link

2021-10-29T00:08:17Z

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Pastakhov: This page contains material from http://www.coinfactswiki.com/wiki/Saxony_1657_4_thaler_Dav-LS396

2021-01-16T01:21:06Z

This page contains material from http://www.coinfactswiki.com/wiki/Saxony_1657_4_thaler_Dav-LS396

New page

[[Image:Saxony H3041-32218o.jpg|300px|thumb|Heritage sale 3041, lot 32218]]
[[Image:Saxony H3041-32218r.jpg|300px|thumb|photo courtesy Heritage Auction Galleries]]

This specimen was lot 32218 in Heritage sale 3041 (Chicago, August 2015), where it sold for $39,950. The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, <blockquote>"Saxony. Johann Georg II Vicariat 4 Taler 1657 MS62 NGC, Ex. Virgil Brand Collection. Of the highest rarity. Beautiful old cabinet toning with subtle rainbow iridescence noted highlighting the devices. A strong and bold strike, from dies of exceptional artistry. With a wonderful depiction of the Elector on horseback on the obverse, with a long list of his titles on the reverse. While Saxony double talers are not particularly rare, the four talers are almost never seen. A coin such as this, with its superb condition, great rarity, and esteemed pedigree, is nearly impossible to estimate. Nonetheless, we hope to provide some guidance to the bidder. From our research, we have been able to find just two other Saxony four talers that have sold publicly in the last decade. The first, a piece from Saxony-Albertine struck in 1650 under Johann Georg I ([[Saxony 1650-CR 4 thaler Dav-LS393|Dav-LS393]]), was sold by Sincona in 2014 for 25,500 CHF hammer ($28,504 at the time). That, however, was a somewhat different type, showing the Elector standing in armor on the obverse with a shield pattern on the reverse. Perhaps more comparable to the piece on offer here is another Vicariat issue from 1629 that crossed the block twice in 2011 (Dav-LS386). It first sold in a Westälische Auktionsgesellschaft auction in February, 2011 for 24,000 euros hammer ($32,529). It was then resold by Hess-Divo a few months later for a hammer price of 44,000 CHF ($49,949). Though a somewhat different type, and thus one cannot make a one to one comparison, it is the opinion of this cataloger that the present specimen is higher grade. A coin such as this, with its combination of condition, rarity, and pedigree, is perhaps best described, to borrow a word from our friends in Germany, as a 'Kabinettstück.' Indeed, we cannot help but believe that it is surely destined to become one of the centerpieces of an advanced collection."</blockquote> The elector also issued a quarter thaler ([[Saxony 1657 1/4 thaler|KM 457]]), a half thaler ([[Saxony 1657 1/2 thaler KM-458|KM 458]]), a single thaler ([[Saxony 1657 thaler Dav-7628|Dav-7628]]), a double thaler ([[Saxony 1657 2 thaler Dav-LS398|Dav-LS398]]), a triple thaler (Dav-LS397), a single ducat ([[Saxony 1657 ducat Fr-2720|KM 463]]) and a double ducat (KM 464) on this occasion. We may assume he thought it was a big deal.

''Recorded mintage:'' unknown.

''Specification:'' 87 g, silver.

''Catalog reference:'' KM 462 ('Rare'), [[Silver crowns by Davenport number|Dav-LS396]].

''[[Bibliography|Source:]]''
* Cuhaj, George S., and Thomas Michael, ''Standard Catalog of World Coins, 1601-1700, 6th ed.'', Iola, WI: Krause Publications, 2014.
* <sup>[1]</sup>Bierrenbach, Cristiano, Warren Tucker and David Michaels, ''Heritage World & Ancient Coins Auction 3041, featuring the Eric Beckman Collection of Canadian Coins, the Kaiser Collection of [[Germany|German]] Gold Coins and the Rudman Collection of Mexican Coins, Part I,'' Dallas, TX: Heritage Auction Galleries, 2015.

''Link to:''
* [[Saxony 1650-CR 4 thaler Dav-LS393]]
* [[Saxony 1657 1/4 thaler|1657 ¼ thaler, vicariat]]
* [[Saxony 1657 1/2 thaler KM-458|1657 half thaler, vicariat]]
* [[Saxony 1657 thaler Dav-7628|1657 thaler, vicariat]]
* [[Saxony 1657 thaler Dav-7630|1657 thaler, vicariat]]
* [[Saxony 1657 2 thaler Dav-LS398|1657 double thaler, vicariat]]
* [[Saxony 1657 ducat Fr-2720|1657 ducat, vicariat]]
* [[Coins and currency dated 1657]]
* return to coins of [[German States, Saxony]]

[[Category:Silver thalers of Germany]][[Category:Selections from Heritage sale 3041]]

@@ Line 21: / Line 21: @@
 * [[Saxony 1657 1/4 thaler|1657-☘ quarter thaler, vicariat]]
 * [[Saxony 1657 1/2 thaler KM-458|1657-☘ half thaler, vicariat]]
-* [[Saxony 1657 thaler Dav-7628|1657 thaler, vicariat]]
+* [[Saxony 1657 thaler Dav-7628|1657-☘ thaler, vicariat]]
-* [[Saxony 1657 thaler Dav-7630|1657 thaler, vicariat]]
+* [[Saxony 1657 thaler Dav-7630|1657-☘ thaler, vicariat]]
 * [[Saxony 1657 2 thaler Dav-LS398|1657-☘ double thaler, on the vicariat]]
 * [[Saxony 1657 3 thaler Dav-LS397|1657-☘ triple thaler, on the vicariat]]

@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 * [[Saxony 1657 3 thaler Dav-LS397|1657-☘ triple thaler, on the vicariat]]
 * [[Saxony 1657 ducat Fr-2720|1657-☘ ducat, on the vicariat]]
-* [[Saxony 1657 2 ducats Fr-2719|1657 double ducat, on the vicariat]]
+* [[Saxony 1657 2 ducats Fr-2719|1657-☘ double ducat, on the vicariat]]
 * [[Coins and currency dated 1657]]
 * return to coins of [[German States, Saxony]]
 [[Category:Silver thalers of Germany]][[Category:Selections from Heritage sale 3041]]

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 * [[Saxony 1657 2 thaler Dav-LS398|1657-☘ double thaler, on the vicariat]]
 * [[Saxony 1657 3 thaler Dav-LS397|1657-☘ triple thaler, on the vicariat]]
-* [[Saxony 1657 ducat Fr-2720|1657 ducat, vicariat]]
+* [[Saxony 1657 ducat Fr-2720|1657-☘ ducat, on the vicariat]]
 * [[Saxony 1657 2 ducats Fr-2719|1657 double ducat, on the vicariat]]
 * [[Coins and currency dated 1657]]

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 ''Link to:''
 * [[Saxony 1650-CR 4 thaler Dav-LS393]]
-* [[Saxony 1657 1/4 thaler|1657 ¼ thaler, vicariat]]
+* [[Saxony 1657 1/4 thaler|1657-☘ quarter thaler, vicariat]]
 * [[Saxony 1657 1/2 thaler KM-458|1657 half thaler, vicariat]]
 * [[Saxony 1657 thaler Dav-7628|1657 thaler, vicariat]]

@@ Line 2: / Line 2: @@
 [[Image:Saxony H3041-32218r.jpg|300px|thumb|photo courtesy Heritage Auction Galleries]]
-This specimen was lot 32218 in Heritage sale 3041 (Chicago, August 2015), where it sold for $39,950. The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, <blockquote>"Saxony. Johann Georg II Vicariat 4 Taler 1657 MS62 NGC, Ex. Virgil Brand Collection. Of the highest rarity. Beautiful old cabinet toning with subtle rainbow iridescence noted highlighting the devices. A strong and bold strike, from dies of exceptional artistry. With a wonderful depiction of the Elector on horseback on the obverse, with a long list of his titles on the reverse. While Saxony double talers are not particularly rare, the four talers are almost never seen. A coin such as this, with its superb condition, great rarity, and esteemed pedigree, is nearly impossible to estimate. Nonetheless, we hope to provide some guidance to the bidder. From our research, we have been able to find just two other Saxony four talers that have sold publicly in the last decade. The first, a piece from Saxony-Albertine struck in 1650 under Johann Georg I ([[Saxony 1650-CR 4 thaler Dav-LS393|Dav-LS393]]), was sold by Sincona in 2014 for 25,500 CHF hammer ($28,504 at the time). That, however, was a somewhat different type, showing the Elector standing in armor on the obverse with a shield pattern on the reverse. Perhaps more comparable to the piece on offer here is another Vicariat issue from 1629 that crossed the block twice in 2011 (Dav-LS386). It first sold in a Westälische Auktionsgesellschaft auction in February, 2011 for 24,000 euros hammer ($32,529). It was then resold by Hess-Divo a few months later for a hammer price of 44,000 CHF ($49,949). Though a somewhat different type, and thus one cannot make a one to one comparison, it is the opinion of this cataloger that the present specimen is higher grade. A coin such as this, with its combination of condition, rarity, and pedigree, is perhaps best described, to borrow a word from our friends in Germany, as a 'Kabinettstück.' Indeed, we cannot help but believe that it is surely destined to become one of the centerpieces of an advanced collection."</blockquote> The elector also issued a quarter thaler ([[Saxony 1657 1/4 thaler|KM 457]]), a half thaler ([[Saxony 1657 1/2 thaler KM-458|KM 458]]), a single thaler ([[Saxony 1657 thaler Dav-7628|Dav-7628]]), a double thaler ([[Saxony 1657 2 thaler Dav-LS398|Dav-LS398]]), a triple thaler (Dav-LS397), a single ducat ([[Saxony 1657 ducat Fr-2720|KM 463]]) and a double ducat (KM 464) on this occasion. We may assume he thought it was a big deal.
+This specimen was lot 32218 in Heritage sale 3041 (Chicago, August 2015), where it sold for $39,950. The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, <blockquote>"Saxony. Johann Georg II Vicariat 4 Taler 1657 MS62 NGC, Ex. Virgil Brand Collection. Of the highest rarity. Beautiful old cabinet toning with subtle rainbow iridescence noted highlighting the devices. A strong and bold strike, from dies of exceptional artistry. With a wonderful depiction of the Elector on horseback on the obverse, with a long list of his titles on the reverse. While Saxony double talers are not particularly rare, the four talers are almost never seen. A coin such as this, with its superb condition, great rarity, and esteemed pedigree, is nearly impossible to estimate. Nonetheless, we hope to provide some guidance to the bidder. From our research, we have been able to find just two other Saxony four talers that have sold publicly in the last decade. The first, a piece from Saxony-Albertine struck in 1650 under Johann Georg I ([[Saxony 1650-CR 4 thaler Dav-LS393|Dav-LS393]]), was sold by Sincona in 2014 for 25,500 CHF hammer ($28,504 at the time). That, however, was a somewhat different type, showing the Elector standing in armor on the obverse with a shield pattern on the reverse. Perhaps more comparable to the piece on offer here is another Vicariat issue from 1629 that crossed the block twice in 2011 (Dav-LS386). It first sold in a Westälische Auktionsgesellschaft auction in February, 2011 for 24,000 euros hammer ($32,529). It was then resold by Hess-Divo a few months later for a hammer price of 44,000 CHF ($49,949). Though a somewhat different type, and thus one cannot make a one to one comparison, it is the opinion of this cataloger that the present specimen is higher grade. A coin such as this, with its combination of condition, rarity, and pedigree, is perhaps best described, to borrow a word from our friends in Germany, as a 'Kabinettstück.' Indeed, we cannot help but believe that it is surely destined to become one of the centerpieces of an advanced collection."</blockquote> The elector also issued a quarter thaler ([[Saxony 1657 1/4 thaler|KM 457]]), a half thaler ([[Saxony 1657 1/2 thaler KM-458|KM 458]]), a single thaler ([[Saxony 1657 thaler Dav-7628|Dav-7628]]), a double thaler ([[Saxony 1657 2 thaler Dav-LS398|Dav-LS398]]), a triple thaler ([[Saxony 1657 3 thaler Dav-LS397|Dav-LS397]]), a single ducat ([[Saxony 1657 ducat Fr-2720|KM 463]]) and a double ducat (KM 464) on this occasion. We may assume he thought it was a big deal.
 ''Recorded mintage:'' unknown.

@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 ''[[Bibliography|Source:]]''
 * Cuhaj, George S., and Thomas Michael, ''Standard Catalog of World Coins, 1601-1700, 6th ed.'', Iola, WI: Krause Publications, 2014.
 * Craig, William D., ''[[Germany|Germanic]] Coinages: Charlemagne through Wilhelm II,'' Mountain View, CA: 1954.
 * <sup>[1]</sup>Bierrenbach, Cristiano, Warren Tucker and David Michaels, ''Heritage World & Ancient Coins Auction 3041, featuring the Eric Beckman Collection of Canadian Coins, the Kaiser Collection of [[Germany|German]] Gold Coins and the Rudman Collection of Mexican Coins, Part I,'' Dallas, TX: Heritage Auction Galleries, 2015.
@@ Line 22: / Line 23: @@
 * [[Saxony 1657 thaler Dav-7628|1657 thaler, vicariat]]
 * [[Saxony 1657 thaler Dav-7630|1657 thaler, vicariat]]
-* [[Saxony 1657 2 thaler Dav-LS398|1657 double thaler, vicariat]]
+* [[Saxony 1657 2 thaler Dav-LS398|1657-☘ double thaler, on the vicariat]]
 * [[Saxony 1657 ducat Fr-2720|1657 ducat, vicariat]]
 * [[Saxony 1657 2 ducats Fr-2719|1657 double ducat, on the vicariat]]