Cleves 1485 stuber - Revision history

LatinKing2020: added link

2026-03-30T15:50:44Z

added link

LatinKing2020: Text replacement - "Cleve, Berg and Julich" to "Cleve, Berg and Jülich"

2026-01-26T18:39:50Z

Text replacement - "Cleve, Berg and Julich" to "Cleve, Berg and Jülich"

LatinKing2020: added link

2026-01-26T18:36:55Z

added link

LatinKing2020: Text replacement - "Cleve and mark in 1789" to "Cleve and Mark in 1789"

2026-01-26T18:28:41Z

Text replacement - "Cleve and mark in 1789" to "Cleve and Mark in 1789"

LatinKing2020: added link

2026-01-18T20:06:32Z

added link

LatinKing2020: added link

2025-09-04T20:59:55Z

added link

LatinKing2020: LatinKing2020 moved page Julich-Cleve-Berg 1485 stuber to Cleves 1485 stuber: shortened title

2025-09-04T20:52:22Z

LatinKing2020 moved page Julich-Cleve-Berg 1485 stuber to Cleves 1485 stuber: shortened title

LatinKing2020: Text replacement - "Julich-Cleve-Berg 1501 goldgulden Fr-1381" to "Julich-Berg 1501 goldgulden Fr-1381"

2025-09-04T20:51:23Z

Text replacement - "Julich-Cleve-Berg 1501 goldgulden Fr-1381" to "Julich-Berg 1501 goldgulden Fr-1381"

LatinKing2020: added second specimen

2025-01-26T07:26:29Z

added second specimen

LatinKing2020: Text replacement - "(Osnabruck" to "(Osnabrück"

2024-11-29T00:47:57Z

Text replacement - "(Osnabruck" to "(Osnabrück"

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 [[Image:Cleve-Mark 1789.JPG|550px|thumb|Cleve and Mark in 1789, from Putzger's atlas]]
-The first specimen was lot 3244 in Künker sale 335 (Osnabrück, Germany, March 2020), where it sold for €550 (about US$720 including buyer's fees). The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, <blockquote>"''JÜLICH-KLEVE-BERG, KLEVE, GRAFSCHAFT, SEIT 1417 HERZOGTUM. Johann II. 1481-1521. Stüber 1485, Wesel. Schwanenstüber. Selten in dieser Erhaltung. Vorzüglich.'' ([[Germany]], duchy of [[German States, Julich-Berg|Julich, Cleves and Berg]], John II, 1481-1521, "swan" stuber of 1485, Wesel mint. Rare in this quality, extremely fine.)"</blockquote> The stuber was equivalent to the Dutch stuiver. The second specimen was lot 6352 in CNG Triton XXVIII (New York, January 2025), where it sold for $1,592.50. The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, "GERMANY, Kleve (Duchy). Johann II. 1481-1521. AR Stüber. Wesel mint. Dated 1485. Swan left, with one wing outstretched; coat-of-arms to left / Long cross fleurée, with C-L-I-V in quarters. Toned, minor deposits. Good VF. From the Robert Levinson Collection." Wikipedia comments, <blockquote>"The United Duchies of Jülich-Cleves-Berg was a combination of states of the Holy Roman Empire. The duchies of Jülich and Berg united in 1423. Nearly a century later, in 1521, these two duchies, along with the county of Ravensberg, fell extinct, with only the last duke's daughter Maria von Geldern left to inherit; under Salic law, women could only hold property through a husband or guardian, so the territories passed to her husband—and distant relative—John III, Duke of Cleves and Mark as a result of their strategic marriage in 1509. These united duchies controlled most of the present-day North Rhine-Westphalia that was not within the ecclesiastical territories of Electoral Cologne and Münster."</blockquote>
+The first specimen was lot 3244 in Künker sale 335 (Osnabrück, Germany, March 2020), where it sold for €550 (about US$720 including buyer's fees). The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, <blockquote>"''JÜLICH-KLEVE-BERG, KLEVE, GRAFSCHAFT, SEIT 1417 HERZOGTUM. Johann II. 1481-1521. Stüber 1485, Wesel. Schwanenstüber. Selten in dieser Erhaltung. Vorzüglich.'' ([[Germany]], duchy of [[German States, Julich-Berg|Julich, Cleves and Berg]], John II, 1481-1521, "swan" stuber of 1485, Wesel mint. Rare in this quality, extremely fine.)"</blockquote> The stuber was equivalent to the Dutch stuiver. The second specimen was lot 6352 in CNG Triton XXVIII (New York, January 2025), where it sold for $1,592.50. The catalog description<sup>[2]</sup> noted, "GERMANY, Kleve (Duchy). Johann II. 1481-1521. AR Stüber. Wesel mint. Dated 1485. Swan left, with one wing outstretched; coat-of-arms to left / Long cross fleurée, with C-L-I-V in quarters. Toned, minor deposits. Good VF. From the Robert Levinson Collection." Wikipedia comments, <blockquote>"The United Duchies of Jülich-Cleves-Berg was a combination of states of the Holy Roman Empire. The duchies of Jülich and Berg united in 1423. Nearly a century later, in 1521, these two duchies, along with the county of Ravensberg, fell extinct, with only the last duke's daughter Maria von Geldern left to inherit; under Salic law, women could only hold property through a husband or guardian, so the territories passed to her husband—and distant relative—John III, Duke of Cleves and Mark as a result of their strategic marriage in 1509. These united duchies controlled most of the present-day North Rhine-Westphalia that was not within the ecclesiastical territories of Electoral Cologne and Münster."</blockquote>
 The affairs of the dukes of Cleve, Berg and Jülich are tangled even by German standards as the three separate lines intermarried and quarreled. Eventually the collateral lines fell extinct and one lord ruled them all, which by then also included Mark and Upper Gelderland. This line in turn fell extinct about 1609 and the lands were claimed by the elector of Brandenburg and the elector of the Palatinate. The war they fought over it was one of the side conflicts of the Thirty Years War but eventually they partitioned it.
@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 * [[Moers 1478 stuber]]
 * [[Julich-Berg 1482 bausche]]
 * [[Cleves (1497-1521) goldgulden Fr-1369]]
 * [[Julich-Berg 1501 goldgulden Fr-1381]]

@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 The first specimen was lot 3244 in Künker sale 335 (Osnabrück, Germany, March 2020), where it sold for €550 (about US$720 including buyer's fees). The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, <blockquote>"''JÜLICH-KLEVE-BERG, KLEVE, GRAFSCHAFT, SEIT 1417 HERZOGTUM. Johann II. 1481-1521. Stüber 1485, Wesel. Schwanenstüber. Selten in dieser Erhaltung. Vorzüglich.'' ([[Germany]], duchy of [[German States, Julich-Berg|Julich, Cleves and Berg]], John II, 1481-1521, "swan" stuber of 1485, Wesel mint. Rare in this quality, extremely fine.)"</blockquote> The stuber was equivalent to the Dutch stuiver. The second specimen was lot 6352 in CNG Triton XXVIII (New York, January 2025), where it sold for $1,592.50. The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, "GERMANY, Kleve (Duchy). Johann II. 1481-1521. AR Stüber. Wesel mint. Dated 1485. Swan left, with one wing outstretched; coat-of-arms to left / Long cross fleurée, with C-L-I-V in quarters. Toned, minor deposits. Good VF. From the Robert Levinson Collection." Wikipedia comments, <blockquote>"The United Duchies of Jülich-Cleves-Berg was a combination of states of the Holy Roman Empire. The duchies of Jülich and Berg united in 1423. Nearly a century later, in 1521, these two duchies, along with the county of Ravensberg, fell extinct, with only the last duke's daughter Maria von Geldern left to inherit; under Salic law, women could only hold property through a husband or guardian, so the territories passed to her husband—and distant relative—John III, Duke of Cleves and Mark as a result of their strategic marriage in 1509. These united duchies controlled most of the present-day North Rhine-Westphalia that was not within the ecclesiastical territories of Electoral Cologne and Münster."</blockquote>
-The affairs of the dukes of Cleve, Berg and Julich are tangled even by German standards as the three separate lines intermarried and quarreled. Eventually the collateral lines fell extinct and one lord ruled them all, which by then also included Mark and Upper Gelderland. This line in turn fell extinct about 1609 and the lands were claimed by the elector of Brandenburg and the elector of the Palatinate. The war they fought over it was one of the side conflicts of the Thirty Years War but eventually they partitioned it.
+The affairs of the dukes of Cleve, Berg and Jülich are tangled even by German standards as the three separate lines intermarried and quarreled. Eventually the collateral lines fell extinct and one lord ruled them all, which by then also included Mark and Upper Gelderland. This line in turn fell extinct about 1609 and the lands were claimed by the elector of Brandenburg and the elector of the Palatinate. The war they fought over it was one of the side conflicts of the Thirty Years War but eventually they partitioned it.
 ''Recorded mintage:'' unknown.

@@ Line 24: / Line 24: @@
 * [[Cleves (1497-1521) goldgulden Fr-1369]]
 * [[Julich-Berg 1501 goldgulden Fr-1381]]
 * [[Cleve 1507 2 stuber]]
 * [[Coins and currency dated 1485]]
 [[Category:Selections from Kunker sale 335, 336]][[Category: Minor coinage of the German states]][[Category:Selections from CNG sale Triton XXVIII]]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 [[Image:Julich K335-3244.jpg|550px|thumb|Künker sale 336, lot 3244]]
 [[Image:CNG Triton 28-6352.jpg|550px|thumb|CNG Triton XXVIII, lot 6352]]
-[[Image:Cleve-Mark 1789.JPG|550px|thumb|Cleve and mark in 1789, from Putzger's atlas]]
+[[Image:Cleve-Mark 1789.JPG|550px|thumb|Cleve and Mark in 1789, from Putzger's atlas]]
 The first specimen was lot 3244 in Künker sale 335 (Osnabrück, Germany, March 2020), where it sold for €550 (about US$720 including buyer's fees). The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, <blockquote>"''JÜLICH-KLEVE-BERG, KLEVE, GRAFSCHAFT, SEIT 1417 HERZOGTUM. Johann II. 1481-1521. Stüber 1485, Wesel. Schwanenstüber. Selten in dieser Erhaltung. Vorzüglich.'' ([[Germany]], duchy of [[German States, Julich-Berg|Julich, Cleves and Berg]], John II, 1481-1521, "swan" stuber of 1485, Wesel mint. Rare in this quality, extremely fine.)"</blockquote> The stuber was equivalent to the Dutch stuiver. The second specimen was lot 6352 in CNG Triton XXVIII (New York, January 2025), where it sold for $1,592.50. The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, "GERMANY, Kleve (Duchy). Johann II. 1481-1521. AR Stüber. Wesel mint. Dated 1485. Swan left, with one wing outstretched; coat-of-arms to left / Long cross fleurée, with C-L-I-V in quarters. Toned, minor deposits. Good VF. From the Robert Levinson Collection." Wikipedia comments, <blockquote>"The United Duchies of Jülich-Cleves-Berg was a combination of states of the Holy Roman Empire. The duchies of Jülich and Berg united in 1423. Nearly a century later, in 1521, these two duchies, along with the county of Ravensberg, fell extinct, with only the last duke's daughter Maria von Geldern left to inherit; under Salic law, women could only hold property through a husband or guardian, so the territories passed to her husband—and distant relative—John III, Duke of Cleves and Mark as a result of their strategic marriage in 1509. These united duchies controlled most of the present-day North Rhine-Westphalia that was not within the ecclesiastical territories of Electoral Cologne and Münster."</blockquote>

@@ Line 21: / Line 21: @@
 * [[Berg (1448-81) goldgulden Fr-1368]]
 * [[Moers 1478 stuber]]
 * [[Cleves (1497-1521) goldgulden Fr-1369]]
 * [[Julich-Berg 1501 goldgulden Fr-1381]]

← Older revision	Revision as of 20:52, 4 September 2025
(No difference)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 [[Image:Julich K335-3244.jpg|550px|thumb|Künker sale 336, lot 3244]]
-This specimen was lot 3244 in Künker sale 335 (Osnabrück, Germany, March 2020), where it sold for €550 (about US$720 including buyer's fees). The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, <blockquote>"''JÜLICH-KLEVE-BERG, KLEVE, GRAFSCHAFT, SEIT 1417 HERZOGTUM. Johann II. 1481-1521. Stüber 1485, Wesel. Schwanenstüber. Selten in dieser Erhaltung. Vorzüglich.'' ([[Germany]], duchy of [[German States, Julich-Berg|Julich, Cleves and Berg]], John II, 1481-1521, "swan" stuber of 1485, Wesel mint. Rare in this quality, extremely fine.)"</blockquote> The stuber was equivalent to the Dutch stuiver.
+The first specimen was lot 3244 in Künker sale 335 (Osnabrück, Germany, March 2020), where it sold for €550 (about US$720 including buyer's fees). The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, <blockquote>"''JÜLICH-KLEVE-BERG, KLEVE, GRAFSCHAFT, SEIT 1417 HERZOGTUM. Johann II. 1481-1521. Stüber 1485, Wesel. Schwanenstüber. Selten in dieser Erhaltung. Vorzüglich.'' ([[Germany]], duchy of [[German States, Julich-Berg|Julich, Cleves and Berg]], John II, 1481-1521, "swan" stuber of 1485, Wesel mint. Rare in this quality, extremely fine.)"</blockquote> The stuber was equivalent to the Dutch stuiver. The second specimen was lot 6352 in CNG Triton XXVIII (New York, January 2025), where it sold for $1,592.50. The catalog description<sup>[1]</sup> noted, "GERMANY, Kleve (Duchy). Johann II. 1481-1521. AR Stüber. Wesel mint. Dated 1485. Swan left, with one wing outstretched; coat-of-arms to left / Long cross fleurée, with C-L-I-V in quarters. Toned, minor deposits. Good VF. From the Robert Levinson Collection." Wikipedia comments, <blockquote>"The United Duchies of Jülich-Cleves-Berg was a combination of states of the Holy Roman Empire. The duchies of Jülich and Berg united in 1423. Nearly a century later, in 1521, these two duchies, along with the county of Ravensberg, fell extinct, with only the last duke's daughter Maria von Geldern left to inherit; under Salic law, women could only hold property through a husband or guardian, so the territories passed to her husband—and distant relative—John III, Duke of Cleves and Mark as a result of their strategic marriage in 1509. These united duchies controlled most of the present-day North Rhine-Westphalia that was not within the ecclesiastical territories of Electoral Cologne and Münster."</blockquote>
 The affairs of the dukes of Cleve, Berg and Julich are tangled even by German standards as the three separate lines intermarried and quarreled. Eventually the collateral lines fell extinct and one lord ruled them all, which by then also included Mark and Upper Gelderland. This line in turn fell extinct about 1609 and the lands were claimed by the elector of Brandenburg and the elector of the Palatinate. The war they fought over it was one of the side conflicts of the Thirty Years War but eventually they partitioned it.
@@ Line 7: / Line 9: @@
 ''Recorded mintage:'' unknown.
-''Specification:'' silver, this specimen 2.73 g.
+''Specification:'' silver, the first specimen 2.73 g, the second specimen 28 mm diameter, 2.60 g, 3 h axis.
 ''Catalog reference:'' Noss 158; Levinson I-200.
@@ Line 14: / Line 16: @@
 * Levinson, Robert, ''The Early Dated Coins of Europe, 1234-1500: An Illustrated Catalogue and Guide to dated medieval coinage.'' Clifton, NJ: Coin & Currency Institute, 2007.
 * <sup>[1]</sup>Künker Münzauktionen und Goldhandel, '''Catalog 335: Bracteates from Upper Swabia and the area of the Lake Constance | Coins and Medals from Medieval and Modern Times, a. o. the Dr. Karl Walter Bach Collection of coins of the Austrian nobility, Special collections of Bavaria, Lubeck, Wurttemberg as well as siege coins from the Eberhard Link Collection.'' Osnabrück: Fritz Rudolf Künker GmbH & Co., AG, 2020.
 ''Link to:''
 * [[Berg (1448-81) goldgulden Fr-1368]]
 * [[Julich-Cleve-Berg 1501 goldgulden Fr-1381]]
 * [[Coins and currency dated 1485]]
-[[Category:Selections from Kunker sale 335, 336]][[Category: Minor coinage of the German states]]
+[[Category:Selections from Kunker sale 335, 336]][[Category: Minor coinage of the German states]][[Category:Selections from CNG sale Triton XXVIII]]